[Cosmo-torun] Re: MNRAS - ME1299

Boud Roukema boud w astro.uni.torun.pl
Czw, 16 Gru 2004, 16:27:11 CET


Dear Dr Hoffman,

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Elizabeth Hoffman wrote:

> Dear Dr Roukema
>
> Regarding your paper ref. ME1299.  We have recently discovered that a
> paper on the same subject, by K. Gorski et al., has been submitted to
> and accepted by the Astrophysical Journal. A preprint of this paper was
> posted on astro-ph/0409513 on September 21, some time before your paper
> was received by Monthly Notices on November 12, but you did not cite
> this paper in your own.  This prior submission must take precedence over

The reason we did not cite that paper is that Gorski et al's new paper
(astro-ph/0409513) was consequent, not precedent, to our paper, and
covered essentially the same material. We sent our paper to those
authors on 8 September 2004 proposing co-authorship.

8 September 2004 is precedent to 21 September 2004.

> yours, and I regret that we must therefore reject your paper for
> publication in Monthly Notices. If you consider that your paper contains
> significant new material beyond that presented in the paper by Gorski et
> al., then we may be able to consider a significantly revised version,
> but such a paper would be treated as a new submission.

On 8 September, we invited Gorski et al. to be coauthors of our paper.
You can verify this either on the public archives of our mailing list:
http://cosmo.torun.pl/pipermail/cosmo-torun/2004-September/000254.html
or by asking any of the subscribers to the mailing list:

[Note: replace " at " by "@" - this is anti-spam-robot protection throughout
this email.]
    * amr at astro.uni.torun.pl
    * bartosz.lew at astri.uni.torun.pl
    * boud at astro.uni.torun.pl
    * jarekr at ncac.torun.pl
    * magda at astro.uni.torun.pl
    * mhanasz at astri.uni.torun.pl
    * michalf at ncac.torun.pl
    * motylek at astro.uni.torun.pl
    * ssober at phys.uni.torun.pl
    * tavi at astro.uni.torun.pl
    * tkato at kusastro.kyoto-u.ac.jp
    * xlenka at poczta.fm
or the HEALPix authors:
    * Krzysztof Gorski <Krzysztof.M.Gorski at jpl.nasa.gov>,
    * Eric Hivon <efh at ipac.caltech.edu>,
    * Frode Hansen <Frode.Hansen at roma2.infn.it>,
    *"Benjamin D. Wandelt" <bwandelt at uiuc.edu>
to check their email archive from 8 September 2004.

While not many of the people listed here are necessarily "neutral",
the nature of the date and content of the email sent on 8 September
2004 consitute an easily falsifiable claim (in the sense of Karl Popper).

Below you will find the email including full header information, but
the most relevant part of the email is as follows:

> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:24:27 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Boud Roukema <boud at astro.uni.torun.pl>
> Reply-To: Boud Roukema <boud at astro.uni.torun.pl>,
> 	Bartek Lew <blew at astro.uni.torun.pl>, cosmo-torun at astro.uni.torun.pl
> To: Krzysztof Gorski <Krzysztof.M.Gorski at jpl.nasa.gov>,
> 	Eric Hivon <efh at ipac.caltech.edu>,
> 	Frode Hansen <Frode.Hansen at roma2.infn.it>,
> 	"Benjamin D. Wandelt" <bwandelt at uiuc.edu>,
> 	Bartek Lew <blew at astro.uni.torun.pl>,
> 	Boud Roukema <boud at astro.uni.torun.pl>,
> 	cosmo-torun at astro.uni.torun.pl
> Subject: proposed co-authorship
>
> Dear colleagues,
>    Please find attached the draft of a paper of which we invite you to
> be co-authors. It is felt that the most consensual way to publish this
> paper would be to include the members of the HEALPix collaboration. We
> would be most happy to include your names as co-authors, if that is
> what you wish.
>
> However, if we hear nothing from you by Wednesday 22 September,
> then we will assume that you do not wish to be co-authors.
>
> Regards,
> Boud, Bartek


Gorski et al. made the choice of not being co-authors with us, but
their submission of an article, with a preprint on astro-ph on
September 21, clearly shows that they submitted their article in full
knowledge of our work, and they submitted their version one day before
our deadline in order to "officially" be able to claim publication
precedence.

Frode Hansen <Frode.Hansen at roma2.infn.it> started a constructive
discussion with us (which ended with his choosing not to be a
co-author with us); he would probably be someone from "Gorski's group"
willing to confirm the chronology here.

On 22 September, we submitted our own article to Astronomy & Astrophysics,
but Astronomy & Astrophysics was unwilling to consider the chronology
we have mentioned and was unwilling to send the article to a neutral
referee for peer review, which is why we only submitted to MNRAS several
weeks later, hoping for a more objective response to our article which
was precedent to Gorski et al's article.

In our humble opinion, the most constructive solution would be to
consider this to be simultaneous submission by two groups, with one
group (us) openly and publicly offering cooperation to the other,
which failed to respond and instead deliberately published a day
before our proposed deadline.  Maybe you could discuss this with
Astrophysical Journal editors to find a constructive solution.

It would be appreciated if you could consider the fully chronology
here.

Best regards,
Boud Roukema, Bartosz Lew


Enclosed (text) (to avoid filling your mailbox, the MIME attachment
has been removed, but we, or any of the recipients cited above who
have kept the email in his/her mailbox, can forward the full email to you
including the MIME attachment if you wish):
[Note: "@" is replaced by " at " - this is anti-spam-robot protection throughout
this email.]



> From cosmo-torun-owner at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl  Wed Sep  8 15:26:00 2004
> Return-Path: <cosmo-torun-owner at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl>
> Delivered-To: boud at adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl
> Received: from newton.astro.uni.torun.pl (newton.astro.uni.torun.pl [158.75.6.7])
> 	by adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 674A82FC92
> 	for <boud at adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl>; Wed,  8 Sep 2004 15:26:00 +0200 (CEST)
> Received: from newton.astro.uni.torun.pl (sympa at localhost [127.0.0.1])
> 	by newton.astro.uni.torun.pl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i88DGZsX026233;
> 	Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:16:36 +0200 (MET DST)
> Received: by newton.astro.uni.torun.pl (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id i88DGXCb026231;
> 	Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:16:33 +0200 (MET DST)
> X-Authentication-Warning: newton.astro.uni.torun.pl: sympa set sender to cosmo-torun-owner at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl using -f
> Received: from adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl (adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl [158.75.6.40])
> 	by newton.astro.uni.torun.pl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i88DFOsX026212;
> 	Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:15:24 +0200 (MET DST)
> Received: by adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl (Postfix, from userid 1000)
> 	id BB9DD2FC93; Wed,  8 Sep 2004 15:24:27 +0200 (CEST)
> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
> 	by adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP
> 	id A1A6A2FC92; Wed,  8 Sep 2004 15:24:27 +0200 (CEST)
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:24:27 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Boud Roukema <boud at astro.uni.torun.pl>
> Reply-To: Boud Roukema <boud at astro.uni.torun.pl>,
> 	Bartek Lew <blew at astro.uni.torun.pl>, cosmo-torun at astro.uni.torun.pl
> To: Krzysztof Gorski <Krzysztof.M.Gorski at jpl.nasa.gov>,
> 	Eric Hivon <efh at ipac.caltech.edu>,
> 	Frode Hansen <Frode.Hansen at roma2.infn.it>,
> 	"Benjamin D. Wandelt" <bwandelt at uiuc.edu>,
> 	Bartek Lew <blew at astro.uni.torun.pl>,
> 	Boud Roukema <boud at astro.uni.torun.pl>,
> 	cosmo-torun at astro.uni.torun.pl
> Subject: proposed co-authorship
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0409081520170.855 at adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1268656134-1928451780-1094649867=:855"
> X-Loop: cosmo-torun at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl
> X-Sequence: 274
> Precedence: list
> X-no-archive: yes
> List-Id: <cosmo-torun at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl>
> List-Help: <mailto:sympa at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl?subject=help>
> List-Subscribe: <mailto:sympa at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl?subject=subscribe%20cosmo-torun>
> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:sympa at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl?subject=unsubscribe%20cosmo-torun>
> List-Post: <mailto:cosmo-torun at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl>
> List-Owner: <mailto:cosmo-torun-request at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl>
> List-Archive: <http://www.astro.uni.torun.pl/sympa/arc/cosmo-torun>
> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.7 required=5.0 tests=MIME_NULL_BLOCK,CBYI,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.20
> X-Spam-Level: ***
> Status: RO
> X-Status:
> X-Keywords:
> X-UID: 68
>
>   This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
>   while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
>   Send mail to mime at docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.
>
> --1268656134-1928451780-1094649867=:855
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Dear colleagues,
>    Please find attached the draft of a paper of which we invite you to
> be co-authors. It is felt that the most consensual way to publish this
> paper would be to include the members of the HEALPix collaboration. We
> would be most happy to include your names as co-authors, if that is
> what you wish.
>
> However, if we hear nothing from you by Wednesday 22 September,
> then we will assume that you do not wish to be co-authors.
>
> Regards,
> Boud, Bartek





Więcej informacji o liście Cosmo-torun