From boud w astro.uni.torun.pl Fri Jan 21 15:34:00 2005 From: boud w astro.uni.torun.pl (Boud Roukema) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:34:00 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Cosmo-torun] grant KBN deadline UMK wtorek 25.01 ? Message-ID: Witam, Circus time again! It seems to me that the KBN deadline is Tuesday 25.01 for sending to the rectorat. Do we try for a common grant proposal? Or separate ones once again? We have a cosmic topology result + other cosmic topology papers which make the case for cosmic topology fairly strong, IMHO, and this includes the topology-AGN connection. Time is getting short, so i'll assume by default we make separate proposals as we tried last year (unsuccessfully). Hmmm, in the last round, there were three cosmo applications that succeeeded: http://www.astrouw.edu.pl/~kst/konkursy.html Demianski 200.000 zl Juszkiewicz 411.000 zl Lokas 102.000 zl If we fail again, then IMHO it will be time to activate cosmo-pl w ..., this is a community problem and will require a community solution if it remains unsolved... pozdr boud From amr w astro.uni.torun.pl Mon Jan 24 11:16:42 2005 From: amr w astro.uni.torun.pl (Andrzej Marecki) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:16:42 +0100 Subject: [Cosmo-torun] grant KBN deadline UMK wtorek 25.01 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050124101642.GB16617@galileo.astro.uni.torun.pl> Boud asks: > Do we try for a common grant proposal? As far as I myself am concerned I'm too busy with my hab. so no time for KBN-grant paranoia again. > Or separate ones once again? See the above. Plus... We (Magda and myself) have been refused KBN funding last time (i.e. 2nd time in the row) by the same *incompetent* referee) so we feel very discouraged and disappointed, particularly given we got excellent ranks from the two other referees which appear competent *not* because they wrote positive reports (there made some critical remarks!) but just because they wrote their reports in a style competent referees should (IMVHO) use. [...] > Hmmm, in the last round, there were three cosmo applications that succeeeded: > > http://www.astrouw.edu.pl/~kst/konkursy.html > Demianski 200.000 zl > Juszkiewicz 411.000 zl > Lokas 102.000 zl This is an old story - KSt is apparently not maintaining his list any longer. The above results are those of the applications put in by July 2003 deadline. -- AM Cc: AJK From amr w astro.uni.torun.pl Mon Jan 24 11:23:10 2005 From: amr w astro.uni.torun.pl (Andrzej Marecki) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:23:10 +0100 Subject: [Cosmo-torun] grant KBN deadline UMK wtorek 25.01 ? In-Reply-To: <20050124101642.GB16617@galileo.astro.uni.torun.pl> References: <20050124101642.GB16617@galileo.astro.uni.torun.pl> Message-ID: <20050124102310.GC16617@galileo.astro.uni.torun.pl> Sorry for a typo in this para which might change the meaning. > We (Magda and myself) have been refused KBN funding last time (i.e. 2nd time > in the row) by the same *incompetent* referee) so we feel very discouraged > and disappointed, particularly given we got excellent ranks from the two > other referees which appear competent *not* because they wrote positive > reports (there made some critical remarks!) but just because they wrote > their reports in a style competent referees should (IMVHO) use. The correct form of the two bottom lines follows: > reports (THEY made some critical remarks!) but just because they wrote > their reports in a style competent referees should (IMVHO) use. AM From boud w astro.uni.torun.pl Tue Jan 25 12:28:06 2005 From: boud w astro.uni.torun.pl (Boud Roukema) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:28:06 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Cosmo-torun] Re: MNRAS - ME1299 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Dr Hoffman, Has MNRAS come to any decision following our request? http://cosmo.torun.pl/pipermail/cosmo-torun/2004-December/000314.html Best regards, Boud On Thu, 16 Dec 2004, Boud Roukema wrote: > Dear Dr Hoffman, > > On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Elizabeth Hoffman wrote: > > > Dear Dr Roukema > > > > Regarding your paper ref. ME1299. We have recently discovered that a > > paper on the same subject, by K. Gorski et al., has been submitted to > > and accepted by the Astrophysical Journal. A preprint of this paper was > > posted on astro-ph/0409513 on September 21, some time before your paper > > was received by Monthly Notices on November 12, but you did not cite > > this paper in your own. This prior submission must take precedence over > > The reason we did not cite that paper is that Gorski et al's new paper > (astro-ph/0409513) was consequent, not precedent, to our paper, and > covered essentially the same material. We sent our paper to those > authors on 8 September 2004 proposing co-authorship. > > 8 September 2004 is precedent to 21 September 2004. > > > yours, and I regret that we must therefore reject your paper for > > publication in Monthly Notices. If you consider that your paper contains > > significant new material beyond that presented in the paper by Gorski et > > al., then we may be able to consider a significantly revised version, > > but such a paper would be treated as a new submission. > > On 8 September, we invited Gorski et al. to be coauthors of our paper. > You can verify this either on the public archives of our mailing list: > http://cosmo.torun.pl/pipermail/cosmo-torun/2004-September/000254.html > or by asking any of the subscribers to the mailing list: > > [Note: replace " at " by "@" - this is anti-spam-robot protection throughout > this email.] > * amr at astro.uni.torun.pl > * bartosz.lew at astri.uni.torun.pl > * boud at astro.uni.torun.pl > * jarekr at ncac.torun.pl > * magda at astro.uni.torun.pl > * mhanasz at astri.uni.torun.pl > * michalf at ncac.torun.pl > * motylek at astro.uni.torun.pl > * ssober at phys.uni.torun.pl > * tavi at astro.uni.torun.pl > * tkato at kusastro.kyoto-u.ac.jp > * xlenka at poczta.fm > or the HEALPix authors: > * Krzysztof Gorski , > * Eric Hivon , > * Frode Hansen , > *"Benjamin D. Wandelt" > to check their email archive from 8 September 2004. > > While not many of the people listed here are necessarily "neutral", > the nature of the date and content of the email sent on 8 September > 2004 consitute an easily falsifiable claim (in the sense of Karl Popper). > > Below you will find the email including full header information, but > the most relevant part of the email is as follows: > > > Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:24:27 +0200 (CEST) > > From: Boud Roukema > > Reply-To: Boud Roukema , > > Bartek Lew , cosmo-torun at astro.uni.torun.pl > > To: Krzysztof Gorski , > > Eric Hivon , > > Frode Hansen , > > "Benjamin D. Wandelt" , > > Bartek Lew , > > Boud Roukema , > > cosmo-torun at astro.uni.torun.pl > > Subject: proposed co-authorship > > > > Dear colleagues, > > Please find attached the draft of a paper of which we invite you to > > be co-authors. It is felt that the most consensual way to publish this > > paper would be to include the members of the HEALPix collaboration. We > > would be most happy to include your names as co-authors, if that is > > what you wish. > > > > However, if we hear nothing from you by Wednesday 22 September, > > then we will assume that you do not wish to be co-authors. > > > > Regards, > > Boud, Bartek > > > Gorski et al. made the choice of not being co-authors with us, but > their submission of an article, with a preprint on astro-ph on > September 21, clearly shows that they submitted their article in full > knowledge of our work, and they submitted their version one day before > our deadline in order to "officially" be able to claim publication > precedence. > > Frode Hansen started a constructive > discussion with us (which ended with his choosing not to be a > co-author with us); he would probably be someone from "Gorski's group" > willing to confirm the chronology here. > > On 22 September, we submitted our own article to Astronomy & Astrophysics, > but Astronomy & Astrophysics was unwilling to consider the chronology > we have mentioned and was unwilling to send the article to a neutral > referee for peer review, which is why we only submitted to MNRAS several > weeks later, hoping for a more objective response to our article which > was precedent to Gorski et al's article. > > In our humble opinion, the most constructive solution would be to > consider this to be simultaneous submission by two groups, with one > group (us) openly and publicly offering cooperation to the other, > which failed to respond and instead deliberately published a day > before our proposed deadline. Maybe you could discuss this with > Astrophysical Journal editors to find a constructive solution. > > It would be appreciated if you could consider the fully chronology > here. > > Best regards, > Boud Roukema, Bartosz Lew > > > Enclosed (text) (to avoid filling your mailbox, the MIME attachment > has been removed, but we, or any of the recipients cited above who > have kept the email in his/her mailbox, can forward the full email to you > including the MIME attachment if you wish): > [Note: "@" is replaced by " at " - this is anti-spam-robot protection throughout > this email.] > > > > > From cosmo-torun-owner at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl Wed Sep 8 15:26:00 2004 > > Return-Path: > > Delivered-To: boud at adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl > > Received: from newton.astro.uni.torun.pl (newton.astro.uni.torun.pl [158.75.6.7]) > > by adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 674A82FC92 > > for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:26:00 +0200 (CEST) > > Received: from newton.astro.uni.torun.pl (sympa at localhost [127.0.0.1]) > > by newton.astro.uni.torun.pl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i88DGZsX026233; > > Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:16:36 +0200 (MET DST) > > Received: by newton.astro.uni.torun.pl (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id i88DGXCb026231; > > Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:16:33 +0200 (MET DST) > > X-Authentication-Warning: newton.astro.uni.torun.pl: sympa set sender to cosmo-torun-owner at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl using -f > > Received: from adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl (adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl [158.75.6.40]) > > by newton.astro.uni.torun.pl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i88DFOsX026212; > > Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:15:24 +0200 (MET DST) > > Received: by adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl (Postfix, from userid 1000) > > id BB9DD2FC93; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:24:27 +0200 (CEST) > > Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > > by adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP > > id A1A6A2FC92; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:24:27 +0200 (CEST) > > Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:24:27 +0200 (CEST) > > From: Boud Roukema > > Reply-To: Boud Roukema , > > Bartek Lew , cosmo-torun at astro.uni.torun.pl > > To: Krzysztof Gorski , > > Eric Hivon , > > Frode Hansen , > > "Benjamin D. Wandelt" , > > Bartek Lew , > > Boud Roukema , > > cosmo-torun at astro.uni.torun.pl > > Subject: proposed co-authorship > > Message-ID: > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1268656134-1928451780-1094649867=:855" > > X-Loop: cosmo-torun at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl > > X-Sequence: 274 > > Precedence: list > > X-no-archive: yes > > List-Id: > > List-Help: > > List-Subscribe: > > List-Unsubscribe: > > List-Post: > > List-Owner: > > List-Archive: > > X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.7 required=5.0 tests=MIME_NULL_BLOCK,CBYI,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.20 > > X-Spam-Level: *** > > Status: RO > > X-Status: > > X-Keywords: > > X-UID: 68 > > > > This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, > > while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. > > Send mail to mime at docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. > > > > --1268656134-1928451780-1094649867=:855 > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > > Dear colleagues, > > Please find attached the draft of a paper of which we invite you to > > be co-authors. It is felt that the most consensual way to publish this > > paper would be to include the members of the HEALPix collaboration. We > > would be most happy to include your names as co-authors, if that is > > what you wish. > > > > However, if we hear nothing from you by Wednesday 22 September, > > then we will assume that you do not wish to be co-authors. > > > > Regards, > > Boud, Bartek > > > _______________________________________________ > Cosmo-torun mailing list > Cosmo-torun w cosmo.torun.pl > http://cosmo.torun.pl/mailman/listinfo/cosmo-torun > From eh w ras.org.uk Tue Jan 25 15:45:11 2005 From: eh w ras.org.uk (Elizabeth Hoffman) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:45:11 -0000 Subject: [Cosmo-torun] Re: MNRAS - ME1299 Message-ID: Dear Dr Roukema Thank you for your email regarding ME1299. However we cannot give the paper further consideration. Regards Dr Hoffman Monthly Notices > -----Original Message----- > From: Boud Roukema [mailto:boud w astro.uni.torun.pl] > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:28 AM > To: Elizabeth Hoffman > Cc: cosmo-torun w cosmo.torun.pl > Subject: Re: [Cosmo-torun] Re: MNRAS - ME1299 > > Dear Dr Hoffman, > Has MNRAS come to any decision following our request? > > http://cosmo.torun.pl/pipermail/cosmo-torun/2004-December/000314.html > > Best regards, > Boud > > On Thu, 16 Dec 2004, Boud Roukema wrote: > > > Dear Dr Hoffman, > > > > On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Elizabeth Hoffman wrote: > > > > > Dear Dr Roukema > > > > > > Regarding your paper ref. ME1299. We have recently > discovered that > > > a paper on the same subject, by K. Gorski et al., has > been submitted > > > to and accepted by the Astrophysical Journal. A preprint of this > > > paper was posted on astro-ph/0409513 on September 21, some time > > > before your paper was received by Monthly Notices on November 12, > > > but you did not cite this paper in your own. This prior > submission > > > must take precedence over > > > > The reason we did not cite that paper is that Gorski et > al's new paper > > (astro-ph/0409513) was consequent, not precedent, to our paper, and > > covered essentially the same material. We sent our paper to those > > authors on 8 September 2004 proposing co-authorship. > > > > 8 September 2004 is precedent to 21 September 2004. > > > > > yours, and I regret that we must therefore reject your paper for > > > publication in Monthly Notices. If you consider that your paper > > > contains significant new material beyond that presented > in the paper > > > by Gorski et al., then we may be able to consider a significantly > > > revised version, but such a paper would be treated as a > new submission. > > > > On 8 September, we invited Gorski et al. to be coauthors of > our paper. > > You can verify this either on the public archives of our > mailing list: > > > http://cosmo.torun.pl/pipermail/cosmo-torun/2004-September/000254.html > > or by asking any of the subscribers to the mailing list: > > > > [Note: replace " at " by "@" - this is anti-spam-robot protection > > throughout this email.] > > * amr at astro.uni.torun.pl > > * bartosz.lew at astri.uni.torun.pl > > * boud at astro.uni.torun.pl > > * jarekr at ncac.torun.pl > > * magda at astro.uni.torun.pl > > * mhanasz at astri.uni.torun.pl > > * michalf at ncac.torun.pl > > * motylek at astro.uni.torun.pl > > * ssober at phys.uni.torun.pl > > * tavi at astro.uni.torun.pl > > * tkato at kusastro.kyoto-u.ac.jp > > * xlenka at poczta.fm > > or the HEALPix authors: > > * Krzysztof Gorski , > > * Eric Hivon , > > * Frode Hansen , > > *"Benjamin D. Wandelt" to check > their email > > archive from 8 September 2004. > > > > While not many of the people listed here are necessarily "neutral", > > the nature of the date and content of the email sent on 8 September > > 2004 consitute an easily falsifiable claim (in the sense of > Karl Popper). > > > > Below you will find the email including full header > information, but > > the most relevant part of the email is as follows: > > > > > Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:24:27 +0200 (CEST) > > > From: Boud Roukema > > > Reply-To: Boud Roukema , > > > Bartek Lew , cosmo-torun at > > > astro.uni.torun.pl > > > To: Krzysztof Gorski , > > > Eric Hivon , > > > Frode Hansen , > > > "Benjamin D. Wandelt" , > > > Bartek Lew , > > > Boud Roukema , > > > cosmo-torun at astro.uni.torun.pl > > > Subject: proposed co-authorship > > > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > Please find attached the draft of a paper of which we > invite you > > > to be co-authors. It is felt that the most consensual way > to publish > > > this paper would be to include the members of the HEALPix > > > collaboration. We would be most happy to include your names as > > > co-authors, if that is what you wish. > > > > > > However, if we hear nothing from you by Wednesday 22 > September, then > > > we will assume that you do not wish to be co-authors. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Boud, Bartek > > > > > > Gorski et al. made the choice of not being co-authors with us, but > > their submission of an article, with a preprint on astro-ph on > > September 21, clearly shows that they submitted their > article in full > > knowledge of our work, and they submitted their version one > day before > > our deadline in order to "officially" be able to claim publication > > precedence. > > > > Frode Hansen started a constructive > > discussion with us (which ended with his choosing not to be a > > co-author with us); he would probably be someone from > "Gorski's group" > > willing to confirm the chronology here. > > > > On 22 September, we submitted our own article to Astronomy & > > Astrophysics, but Astronomy & Astrophysics was unwilling to > consider > > the chronology we have mentioned and was unwilling to send > the article > > to a neutral referee for peer review, which is why we only > submitted > > to MNRAS several weeks later, hoping for a more objective > response to > > our article which was precedent to Gorski et al's article. > > > > In our humble opinion, the most constructive solution would be to > > consider this to be simultaneous submission by two groups, with one > > group (us) openly and publicly offering cooperation to the other, > > which failed to respond and instead deliberately published a day > > before our proposed deadline. Maybe you could discuss this with > > Astrophysical Journal editors to find a constructive solution. > > > > It would be appreciated if you could consider the fully chronology > > here. > > > > Best regards, > > Boud Roukema, Bartosz Lew > > > > > > Enclosed (text) (to avoid filling your mailbox, the MIME attachment > > has been removed, but we, or any of the recipients cited above who > > have kept the email in his/her mailbox, can forward the > full email to > > you including the MIME attachment if you wish): > > [Note: "@" is replaced by " at " - this is anti-spam-robot > protection > > throughout this email.] > > > > > > > > > From cosmo-torun-owner at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl Wed Sep 8 > > > 15:26:00 2004 > > > Return-Path: > > > Delivered-To: boud at adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl > > > Received: from newton.astro.uni.torun.pl > (newton.astro.uni.torun.pl [158.75.6.7]) > > > by adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 674A82FC92 > > > for ; Wed, 8 Sep > 2004 15:26:00 > > > +0200 (CEST) > > > Received: from newton.astro.uni.torun.pl (sympa at > localhost [127.0.0.1]) > > > by newton.astro.uni.torun.pl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP > id i88DGZsX026233; > > > Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:16:36 +0200 (MET DST) > > > Received: by newton.astro.uni.torun.pl > (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id i88DGXCb026231; > > > Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:16:33 +0200 (MET DST) > > > X-Authentication-Warning: newton.astro.uni.torun.pl: sympa set > > > sender to cosmo-torun-owner at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl using -f > > > Received: from adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl > (adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl [158.75.6.40]) > > > by newton.astro.uni.torun.pl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP > id i88DFOsX026212; > > > Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:15:24 +0200 (MET DST) > > > Received: by adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl (Postfix, from userid 1000) > > > id BB9DD2FC93; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:24:27 +0200 (CEST) > > > Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > > > by adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP > > > id A1A6A2FC92; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:24:27 +0200 (CEST) > > > Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:24:27 +0200 (CEST) > > > From: Boud Roukema > > > Reply-To: Boud Roukema , > > > Bartek Lew , cosmo-torun at > > > astro.uni.torun.pl > > > To: Krzysztof Gorski , > > > Eric Hivon , > > > Frode Hansen , > > > "Benjamin D. Wandelt" , > > > Bartek Lew , > > > Boud Roukema , > > > cosmo-torun at astro.uni.torun.pl > > > Subject: proposed co-authorship > > > Message-ID: > > adjani.astro.uni.torun.pl> > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; > BOUNDARY="1268656134-1928451780-1094649867=:855" > > > X-Loop: cosmo-torun at newton.astro.uni.torun.pl > > > X-Sequence: 274 > > > Precedence: list > > > X-no-archive: yes > > > List-Id: > > > List-Help: newton.astro.uni.torun.pl?subject=help> > > > List-Subscribe: > > newton.astro.uni.torun.pl?subject=subscribe%20cosmo-torun> > > > List-Unsubscribe: > > newton.astro.uni.torun.pl?subject=unsubscribe%20cosmo-torun> > > > List-Post: > > > List-Owner: > > newton.astro.uni.torun.pl> > > > List-Archive: > > > > X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.7 required=5.0 > > > tests=MIME_NULL_BLOCK,CBYI,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.20 > > > X-Spam-Level: *** > > > Status: RO > > > X-Status: > > > X-Keywords: > > > X-UID: 68 > > > > > > This message is in MIME format. The first part should > be readable text, > > > while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without > MIME-aware tools. > > > Send mail to mime at docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. > > > > > > --1268656134-1928451780-1094649867=:855 > > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > Please find attached the draft of a paper of which we > invite you > > > to be co-authors. It is felt that the most consensual way > to publish > > > this paper would be to include the members of the HEALPix > > > collaboration. We would be most happy to include your names as > > > co-authors, if that is what you wish. > > > > > > However, if we hear nothing from you by Wednesday 22 > September, then > > > we will assume that you do not wish to be co-authors. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Boud, Bartek > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cosmo-torun mailing list > > Cosmo-torun w cosmo.torun.pl > > http://cosmo.torun.pl/mailman/listinfo/cosmo-torun > > >